Hi everyone,
1619 Project author Nikole Hannah-Jones talked to The New York Times about what she and the podcast host collectively see as the coming erasure of black culture from America. In a short conversation, Wesley Morris and Hannah-Jones discussed how the Trump administration is effectively pushing black people out, through executive orders and anti-DEI policies.
"So it's like a policy feels very abstract, an executive order feels very abstract, and we suffer from historical naiveté in this country and denialism, and that's because we really do believe in our mythology," Hannah-Jones said.
"In a way, I mean, all countries have mythology, but we really do believe we're exceptional. And we really do treat all of these dark, extended periods where people don't have rights, where people are having their rights violently suppressed, where we don't have democracy, we treat them as these exceptional periods as opposed to the norm."
One of the uniting ideas in American culture is that we are exceptional. We have no religion that binds us together, no shared ethnic traditions, what we have is a patriotic spirit, a belief in the unwavering exceptionalism of our country, and the collective drive to be the greatest. If we don't have that, we don't have even the chance to be a unified people.
In language that expresses worry and fear, Hannah-Jones seems to be indicating that instead of leaving racism further behind us in this country, we are sinking further and further into its grasp. Her view is that there has been essentially a backlash against blackness under Trump and that the goal of his administration and his supporters is to suppress black people from positions of power and achievement in society.
As the two continue talking, Morris and Hannah-Jones agree that the encroaching racism is coming even though black artists, arts and culture have achieved recognition and praise in the nation's most prestigious and revered artistic institutions. Somehow, despite that inarguable evidence that racism had substantially declined, Hannah-Jones said that's no indication that racism isn't advancing apace.
"Are we in the moment of the veil coming down? And is this the moment where we mark: 'did y'all remember in 2025, and then..." Meaning that here we are at the pinnacle of the expression of black culture in America and that it's all about to come crashing down.
Morris and Hannah-Jones look upon the history of the decline of racism in the United States and they are waiting for the other shoe to drop. They don't believe that society has changed or made any real progress. They look upon what others would view as progress with skepticism. It's like they won't believe racism has truly diminished in America until the worst kinds of racial hate come back.